tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post7666664569349460504..comments2023-06-13T08:29:39.914+00:00Comments on MAKING A MARK: 'Legal' coloured pencils for CPSA International ExhibitionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-11682570623059722252012-12-19T16:26:34.288+00:002012-12-19T16:26:34.288+00:00Of course we could always have a Pencil Society - ...Of course we could always have a Pencil Society - with no pencils banned ;)<br />Making A Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13509483023337008890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-79684144720847516502012-12-19T16:11:24.142+00:002012-12-19T16:11:24.142+00:00Scott is right about the sometimes contradictory a...Scott is right about the sometimes contradictory aims of the two Societies. I certainly felt that tension in setting up the UKCPS. But his attempt at a definition shows the many pitfalls that the CPSA avoids with its list. When we say coloured pencils, we do not mean pastel pencils. Pastel pencils are the spawn of the devil, they must be shunned, cast out, excommunicated - well, you get the idea. This is the very crux of the problem. How do you define coloured pencil in such a way that pastel pencils are not allowed in? Because we don't want them in, no other reason, btw. Probably Katherine's way - you specifically exclude them - might work fine. But it may leave a back door for them to sneak in later. I just prefer the list approach.<br /><br />And please note my views are not those of the UKCPS, I no longer have anything to do with the CP world, so you can just ignore what I think anyway. But the day the UKCPS let's in pastel pencils is the day I - express a deep sigh of regret.Bob Ebdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02706756445971562444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-86201519929278508602012-12-17T17:59:09.638+00:002012-12-17T17:59:09.638+00:00When CPSA was originally founded there were few ch...When CPSA was originally founded there were few choices in colored pencils. It was probably easier then to figure out what a colored pencil was. Now there are infinitely more choices. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the CPSA could follow the model of the US and UK watercolor societies? I believe they include traditional watercolor, tempera, casein and acrylic as acceptable mediums in their competitions and for membership. Very dissimilar media in terms of appearance, handling and finish, but all are water soluble. Perhaps an analogous approach could be taken with colored pencils.--anything that's shaped sort of like a pencil, is colored, is dry to the touch out of the box and can be sharpened would be acceptable.<br /><br />Regarding your comment encouraging the use of lightfast pencils as a criteria for submission, I think in the CPSA there are two strains of thought regarding their mission (this is pure conjecture on my part). There's probably an advocacy within the CPSA that wants to promote artist quality colored pencil as a professional medium for serious artists. There's also another strain that promotes the use of colored pencil by the amateur who wants to enjoy drawing as a casual hobby. I'm not sure they can advocate for one with alienating the other.ScottWmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15947744461811800141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-9586016831592561412012-12-17T14:53:51.954+00:002012-12-17T14:53:51.954+00:00I'm actually looking at it in the context of t...I'm actually looking at it in the context of the very many art societies exhibitions I study/review both nationally and internationally where the criteria used is much more simple eg watercolour societies say "water-based media" or "water-soluble media"<br /><br />This is the very first time I've ever known an art society to be this definitive. It's a first!<br /><br />Now if they'd said all fine artwork for the International Exhibition must be produced using lightfast coloured pencils (meeting a defined level) I'd have been cheering from the sidelines - because that would have meant raising the standard of media used! Maybe a stretch too far?Making A Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13509483023337008890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-35660552040613238332012-12-17T14:38:14.413+00:002012-12-17T14:38:14.413+00:00I suspect when you run a competition that awards c...I suspect when you run a competition that awards cash prizes, it's useful to publish a list of acceptable media and clear rules for entrants so everyone competes on a level playing field. In this light the list makes perfect sense. There are so many hybrid art supplies now that make defining a "colored pencil" not as easy as it used to be. Also, on a practical level it keeps a volunteer from having to answer dozens of emails where artist's ask "Is it okay if I use [fill in blank] in my drawing?" <br /><br />The exclusion of Neocolor is regrettable because it's been widely used by many artists in their work for years, highlighted in books and articles on CP and taught in workshops. However, artists can still enter the CPSA Explore This! competition and use Neocolors (and other excluded media) so all is not lost. <br /><br />Perhaps if you look at their list in the context of running the International Exhibition it makes more sense. They're simply saying "you can use any of these products to create your entry".ScottWmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15947744461811800141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-69167628228881023892012-12-17T13:41:32.788+00:002012-12-17T13:41:32.788+00:00OK - so make it "Only oil or wax-based colou...OK - so make it "Only oil or wax-based coloured pencils/sticks are eligible media for the International Exhibition. This does NOT include pastel pencils or oil pastels."Making A Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13509483023337008890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-61613992098722233062012-12-17T12:45:42.847+00:002012-12-17T12:45:42.847+00:00No, but there may be items not on the list that yo...No, but there may be items not on the list that you would still wish to exclude, like oil pastels, that may not be excluded by your definitions. That is the problem with definitions, they are open to interpretation. The list is much more certain. It also makes the Society future proof - when a manufacture comes up with a technologically new pencil, the Society just has to decide whether to add it to the list or not.Bob Ebdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02706756445971562444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-89564544720719140022012-12-17T12:03:25.668+00:002012-12-17T12:03:25.668+00:00But Bob - WHY create a list?
Why not just say &qu...But Bob - WHY create a list?<br /><br />Why not just say "Only oil or wax-based coloured pencils/sticks are eligible media for the International Exhibition. This does NOT include pastel pencils?" Is there a single pencil in this list which would not comply with that statement?Making A Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13509483023337008890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-62033829256177205712012-12-17T11:52:08.293+00:002012-12-17T11:52:08.293+00:00It all comes down to how you define a coloured pen...It all comes down to how you define a coloured pencil, which actually is very difficult to do in the way that the two Societies want, I.e. excluding pastels. It is a lot easier to say "OK, I can't define them, but these are what I am talking about". It is like it is impossible to define a folk song - but you can give examples, which people will probably still argue over. Personally I feel Neocolours are a significant omission that should be corrected, but otherwise I agree with the list.<br /><br />There is a big difference between saying something is LEGAL for exhibition purposes and something is SUITABLE for exhibition purposes. I think we can rely on artists to select from a list of pencils that would be allowed for exhibition only those pencils which will give long lasting results. Particularly if they are required maybe to state which products have been used in a picture and have any expectation of selling their work. Bob Ebdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02706756445971562444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-69099041519294204812012-12-17T10:06:48.901+00:002012-12-17T10:06:48.901+00:00What a fabulous post and I am really interested in...What a fabulous post and I am really interested in colored pencil work.Autumn Leaveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04010044052621228719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-842708436756714582012-12-16T23:43:55.697+00:002012-12-16T23:43:55.697+00:00"I'm pretty shocked honestly that Crayola..."I'm pretty shocked honestly that Crayola would be on the list of being allowed. It makes my wonder what they won't allow."<br /><br />I don't think you will be the only person to have this response - I was pretty shocked as well.<br /><br />The thing I find puzzling about the Neocolours is I know artists who submit work to the International Exhibition who have been using them for underpaintings for ages...... but there again who's to know?Making A Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13509483023337008890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-24558261346710635392012-12-16T23:39:31.072+00:002012-12-16T23:39:31.072+00:00But why produce a list at all?
My own personal vi...But why produce a list at all?<br /><br />My own personal view is that there are a lot of artists who have spent a very long time trying to promote coloured pencils as a serious medium for fine art and who have been working hard to get people to think about coloured pencils outside the "Crayola / what I used at school" mindset. I think they may well be pretty disappointed at some of the inclusions and may well wonder about whether the list takes the CP as art media cause forwards or backwards.<br /><br />Personally speaking I'd have left things as they were - with some clear instructions for people to contact CPSA if they have queries.<br /><br />My own feeling is that if a list were needed I think I would have expected an art society to have clearly differentiated on the basis of brands which are suitable for fine art and art which is to be sold (ie this is an ART society not a society for people who like filling in colouring pages)<br /><br />Isn't the point of the International Exhibition to raise the game and the quality of the media recommended for fine art as opposed to acknowledging all coloured pencils irrespective of whether they are designed for 3 years olds (ie Crayola) or fine artists<br /><br />If this list stays, I think consideration needs to be given to some media which been lost in translation. I really don't understand what on earth is the difference between the woodless/water-based pencils identified (which are not pencils in the usual sense of the word) and Neocolour other than thickness (same as a Crayola product on the list) and a word used by a Swiss company which doesn't mean the same as the same word used in English-speaking countries. I think we all know that Pastels are not made of wax!!! Wouldn't a listing such as this have been an ideal opportunity to say that Neocolour are OK - despite the Swiss use of the word. If they changed the word (which they don't seem to use on the tins in any case!) on the tins to "sticks" would that mean they are suddenly "legal"?Making A Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13509483023337008890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-67078890350643349562012-12-16T23:05:17.762+00:002012-12-16T23:05:17.762+00:00Many thanks Cindy. My question was, in a way, rhe...Many thanks Cindy. My question was, in a way, rhetorical as the CPSA, like any other art society, has to place trust in the fact artist will comply with an honour system if they have no way of testing. <br /><br />I guess on reflection that i'm puzzled - , given the fact it's an honour system and there's no way of testing - and am curious as to why CPSA didn't just stick with the system used by other art societies of saying what they will and will not accept (ie coloured pencils = OK; pastel pencils = not OK) - and leave it at that.<br /><br />However I am grateful to you for identifying all the pencils deemed to be coloured pencils. I think I may well take the opportunity to identify on my <a href="http://www.squidoo.com/colpencils" rel="nofollow">coloured pencils website</a>:<br />* EITHER what I consider to be student/school grade pencils - and hence unsuitable for fine art.<br />* OR those brands pencils which are suitable for fine art if the lightfast colours are used.<br />I am of course in the happy position of being able to have an independent opinion and am not required to be accountable to an Executive or membership! :)Making A Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13509483023337008890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-30991610450929844302012-12-16T22:32:12.474+00:002012-12-16T22:32:12.474+00:00I just joined the CPSA this year and while I don&#...I just joined the CPSA this year and while I don't have something ready to enter this year, I did read through the prospectus to mentally prepare myself. I personally only own products that are both suitable for artists and legal according to their list. I haven't gotten into the detail of looking into individual colors to see if they are lightfast or not, although I printed out the test results so I can review what I have. I'm pretty shocked honestly that Crayola would be on the list of being allowed. It makes my wonder what they won't allow. I did see that they don't allow Neocolors but I never really thought of them as colored pencils either.Carolyn A. Pappashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02313373235752265020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-18642255331463429762012-12-16T19:48:06.780+00:002012-12-16T19:48:06.780+00:00Initial reaction is favourable. I think we all kne...Initial reaction is favourable. I think we all knew this was going to have to be the way to go when we struggled to define coloured pencils, but knew what they were and what we wanted to see. I think your questions about the student standard pencils will not cause problems as many artists will not use the. But to exclude them would be wrong as they are without out coloured pencils. They may encourage more artists to participate as they are cheaper and more available, and pencils like the Furby's may produce some interesting work. Please note that the pencils with the triangle may NOT be lightfast - they just are the ones that the CPSA. Has tested for light fastness. One omission is Caran d'Ache Neocolour. I can't see anything else that I would wish to include - but my memory is not great. I also liked the CPSA response to your question. OK they cannot police it - but they are not a police force. What the list does do is to make everything very clear and put the onus on the artist.Bob Ebdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02706756445971562444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20645140.post-90633061769573701942012-12-16T19:41:59.203+00:002012-12-16T19:41:59.203+00:00Katherine, As I stated in response to your comment...Katherine, As I stated in response to your comment on our FB page. "..While we are giving our best information as to what products constitute the spirit of colored pencil art, we use the honor system. We trust that the artist is following our guidelines unless proven otherwise. We are not the colored pencil police, rather an organization that celebrates the best of colored pencil art."<br /><br />Take this information in the spirit as it was given, to help artists make decisions for themselves as to the products they may be able to use. We are a volunteer board of 13 people who do the very best we can at any given time to promote the media which we love.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05695880592300626881noreply@blogger.com